Black Journalists on Journalism

Zuri Berry: This is the Black Journalists on Journalism podcast, a ZMC Podcasts production.

Donnell Suggs: This is our first time out. Zuri Berry, myself, Donnell Suggs, and we have the wonderful opportunity to interview one of my favorite beat writers, one of my favorite people in the business, Mr. Keith Pompey from the Philadelphia Inquirer.

Keith, how are you brother?

Keith Pompey: Hey what's up man? How are you doing?

Donnell Suggs: Fantastic. Listen, we'll get into last night and how it looked like the short b, MVP and all that. But what we wanna do with this podcast is create a space for black journalists to talk about their careers, how they got started that route. Everyone's got a different route.

We've all, in this business, we've all got a different route to where we are, right? And I think there should be a space where black journalists can listen, be it young or old like me, and be able to come in and hear someone else's backstory. Everyone's got a different route. And I'd love to be able to share those stories, Zuri, and I thought this would make sense to have a space where we can share those stories for other people.

Be a young journalist just starting out. Or people like us that wanted to hear how our fellow contemporaries have gotten to where they've gotten. So when I was thinking of a list, I said, let me start with Keith cuz that's my guy. And I've been reading him since I was a freshman in school and Jenkintown Pennsylvania a long time ago.

And I feel like, um, this would be a great place to start. So we wanted to start with you and really, really appreciate you having done that.

Keith Pompey: I appreciate that. I really appreciate that.

Donnell Suggs: Zuri, introduce yourself please.

Zuri Berry: So my name's Zuri. I've been a journalist for the past 20 years. I started as a sports reporter, sports producer. I worked for the Boston Globe, the Boston Herald, uh, did some TV editing, did some public radio editing, and now I do podcast production. This is, uh, part of me sticking or staying involved, if you will with journalism and, and, and trying to do more storytelling. And so it's so important for me to hear from folks like Keith and folks like Donnell, folks like that we have intended to come on this show, talk about their journey, and talk about their path and what they've learned and how to pass that on to the next generation.

So that's the big thing for me. That's why I'm here. That's what I'm interested in. And with that, I feel like we can kick it off and get going.

Donnell Suggs: So part of my job as the editor in chief of the Atlanta Voice is to cover the Atlanta Hawks. So I see Keith about once or twice a year, sometimes three, depending on how the schedule works. And Keith, yo, you've been working with the Inquirer for almost 20 years. I'd love to hear, just tell us your backstory from school to falling in love with journalism to how you got started in the business, please.

Keith Pompey: Yeah. You know, it is weird. Like, you know, it all started in high school and you know, in high school I was a part of the high school newspaper, so I really got into it, but I'm gonna be real with y'all.

You know, my father was like, there's no money in journalism. Like, you know what I mean?

If you're black, you gotta be a doctor, you gotta be a lawyer. So when I went to Pitt, I took a lot of communication rhetoric classes, and I was prepared to go to law school to a point where I got accepted. And this is a crazy story. Y'all gonna laugh at this one, but my passion was always with journalism and I was a track nerd.

And what happened is I had a complaint at the student newspaper my final semester, and uh, I went up there and the guy said, I'm tired of you coming here. I'm tired of you complaining. If you want the track team covered, they got a track meet next weekend. You cover it.

So what happened is I wrote the story.

It was the worst story ever published, ever.

Seriously y'all. I walked on the yard, crashed in like the student union. I went to pick and I saw this co-ed who I always wanted to date and said, I read your article. Great article. I'm gonna be a reporter. I'm gonna

be,

Zuri Berry: That's

all it

Keith Pompey: was it. Now

Zuri Berry: Little bit of affirmation.

Donnell Suggs: That's it.

Keith Pompey: I never dated the young lady, but that was like a good enough excuse for me to get started.

So, I'll be honest with you, I graduated. My father was upset. At that particular time, my mom and dad were separated. And, um, I remember my first, like I had a, uh, I, I took a job working at the housing and office at Pitt because I did not wanna, um, go to, uh, grad school for this. So I took post baccalaureate courses and I worked at the housing office at Pitt.

And I know y'all probably familiar with the Pittsburgh Car Courier. So I had an internship there. And they let me cover certain

Donnell Suggs: Shout out to black newspapers.

Keith Pompey: Exactly. Shout out to black newspapers that could help me. I'm telling you, they were the ones who said, come on, write for us. So I did that and then I went, um, I had a fellowship at the Arizona Republic, a Pulliam Fellowship.

And then I had what was called a landmark internship, which was a year long internship.

I'm telling you y'all, I was raw. I didn't know anything.

And um, so I get a, my first real job was in Martinsville, Virginia at the Martinsville Bulletin. And they always say, you gotta have dreams, right? So my dream was always to be the 76ers beat writer for the Philadelphia Inquirer.

At the time, Stephen A. Smith was the beat writer. Now mind you, I told you my mom and dad weren't together. I knew that my mom was coming down to see me live in Virginia. Lo and behold, it was my mom and my dad at the door. I'm shocked because they're no longer together. My dad had a U-Haul, a U-Haul van, and he said, pack up your stuff, we are going home. You gotta go to law school. You don't. You ain't going to give up your goal, your dream. And I was like, I'm not. And my mom was like, nah, you're coming home. You're going to stay with me. And I said, mom, you gonna allow me to bring girls in there? You're gonna allow me to do this? You're gonna allow me to do that?

And she was like, no. And I said, well, I ain't coming home. I said, but I promise you, mom, I am going to come home one day and I'm gonna work for the Philadelphia Inquirer. They thought I was crazy and like, lo and behold, I want to say maybe five years later, five, six. Yeah, five years later I came back and I, and I got a job at the Ink.

Donnell Suggs: What, what I'm getting from that right now is there's no dream there. There's no journalism dream too big for any of us. You can't, you can't believe it's too big for you, otherwise there's no way you're gonna be able to accomplish it.

Keith Pompey: Exactly. You know what it was y'all, it was one of those things where, well, first of all, I grew up in inner city Philly. I mean, I remember when I was in high school, the high school guidance counselor told my mom that I wasn't college material, that I needed to shop. And my mom was like, nah, y'all crazy. Y'all got my son misunderstood, right.

It was always, I felt like I was the underdog. But it was one of those things where I always tell people as I made it, if I could become this beat writer and I had this dream, anybody can do what they want right now. The deal is you gotta understand something.

Where I come from, it was like people didn't go. It was one of those places where, and I'm thinking it's, it's no different than any other inner city community, right? So typically when, when brothers go away, we either think they're locked up or they were in the service. You gotta keep reminding people like, nah, I'm in school.

I'm in school. So it was that type of situation. But all I kept thinking about if I give up on this,

like

Somebody gotta tell me that I'm a complete failure before I decide to give up. Because if I give up on this dream, what's going to happen is I'm gonna be 50, 60, 70 years old wondering what happens if I would've kept fighting.

So what

I did is honestly, y'all, like,

I

I just kept doing it. I mean, I was going to small, living in small communities, not making any.

and

just grinding. And it's funny, like, God, you know, God bless my situation, but there were some people who thought I was crazy. I had girlfriends who broke up with me saying, like, chasing this dream, that's not gonna work out for you.

I had, you know, my father thinking I was crazy at the time, and it was like, he's a fool. He's not going to make it. I mean, I'm being real. That's, you know, like Unfortu. We hear more of the negative than we hear the positive in situations like that.

Zuri Berry: Now there's a few things that you've mentioned there about your, your backstory and your. And you talked about the internships, you talked about the job in Martinsville. There is somebody, probably a few bodies that gave you a break. In those instances, can you, can you give us a little bit of insight in what those breaks were, who those people were that were instrumental in getting you going?

Keith Pompey: The first guy was a guy by the name of Marvin. Marvin Lake was a Virginian Pilot. He was the recruiter. He was in charge of the, uh, internship, right? Uh, he, well, actually he was the second guy. The first guy was a guy by the name of Mike White from the Pittsburgh Post Gazette. He was a guy who basically, he was a high school dude, but he was a guy that gave me an opportunity to answer phones.

He also gave me some story assignments. Now, I am remiss to not like it, thank you. At the Pittsburgh Courier, right? All of them. They were cool. They once got me started. But Marvin Lake was a guy who I met,

um, at a job fair in New York. It was that, um, it was one of them big career fairs, so to speak. And it's like, you think you, the guy like, yeah, you know, I'm taking postback laureate courses at.

I'm, you know, I'm walking up to the New York Times saying, hire me. I can cover the Giants, you know? And they're like, no. And then Marvin, he said to me, he said, um, I like you. It's something about you. What's this guy talking about? He was like, but you gotta get your act together. I'm like, what is he talking about?

He was like, look, you gotta send me some clips. I want to critique you.

and

just, you know, just stay, you know, just stay humble, huh. So then all of a sudden,

Next

thing you know, he says, Hey, we got this fellowship. And I was like, well, I also got a fellowship. And he said, year long internship. I said, but I also got accepted to the Pulliam Fellowship and they sent me to Phoenix.

He said, well, we'll hold a slot for you when it is over in Phoenix. Come come to.

My first spot was Virginia Beach. So I worked for the Virginia Pilot for like four months. And then from there I went to, uh, Virginia Beach, and then I went to, uh, the Roanoke Times in Virginia.

Zuri Berry: You had taken over Virginia.

Keith Pompey: um, uh, so it was

like, this dude believed in me and, but he was like, the one thing about him is he kept it 100.

You know how like, you know how when we were all younger and we had that uncle or that aunt or even our mom, like we were acting like the slang words just appeared and like stuff, and we think we're getting over 'em. We're not, and they're really just laughing.

That's

who Marvin was. And he was, he was serious, he was a huge influence in my life.

A huge influence, you know?

Donnell Suggs: I think one of the things again that you mentioned was these people gave you a shot, but you listened to 'em, though you could have said, you could have blown him off and said, this guy doesn't know me, but you listened to him.

I think that's a large part of dealing with young journalists right now. As an editor in chief at a black newspaper, I do get an opportunity to speak to a lot of young black journalists and the first thing they wanna do is jump right in there. Mr. Sells, can I cover, you know, vice President Harris is coming tomorrow.

I'd love to do it. You straight, you're not even finished with school yet and you wanna cover the vice president or President Biden's coming, I'd like to cover you to do that. And if you listen to me, you would, I would tell you shortly, you gotta slow down and maybe go ahead and get me some Georgia State coverage or cover that, that ribbon cutting.

And some of 'em listen to, some of 'em go, oh well, okay, I'm gonna try something else then cuz I wanted to, I wanted to do that. And the smart thing for you was, and you and me and Zuri and a lot of us, we had to listen. And this generation's a little younger and they do have access to a lot more information cause they feel like they don't have to listen sometimes.

And I try to tell my young staff, you gotta listen man. Trust me. I was right where you were. So when I'm listening to your story, I'm like, I need a lot of our younger journalists to hear that too. That you had to take that job and Roanoke and you had to take that internship and those things first before you get a chance to cover the Sixers, per se.

Keith Pompey: Oh yeah, it was crazy. I mean, like, not really crazy. Like the job in Martinsville, Virginia, it was a three person staff and it was an evening thing. Now we had the sports editor and another guy, and we had to take our own photos. We had to like the way the jobs went, we had to be there at like 4:00 AM and we had to lay out the paper,

right?

You do all that. And then after you'd lay out the paper and do everything, because it was afternoon paper, then you would go out on assignment and go to practice, or cover a game and this and that. So there was really no deadline per se. But when you look at it, I mean, we weren't making any money, but we were actually making less when you added up the hours when it was.

So that was like the start. That was the start. But I would be remiss, there's another brother, brother to to this day

who is

my mentor, and his name is Paul Mitchell. He's been my mentor for like 30 years, and he was the one who basically.

You're not good enough.

I mean, he kept it real with me. He said, you keep saying you want to be a beat writer,

but

you're not good enough.

You don't have what it takes. And he would always bring up a guy by the name of Marc Spears. And you know, a lot of people know Marc. And he was like, you're not on Marc's level. And I'm like, well, who the heck is Marc? And he was like, Marc covers the Denver Nuggets. And Marc does this and Marc does that. And um, I mean his keeping it 100 with me was kind of like the best thing that happened.

And I'm gonna tell you this, what he did is he made me say, am I ready yet? Am I ready yet? And when he gave me that confirmation, I mean, it was weird. Like he even told me that not to take this job, don't take that job. And, um, that's the thing that really helped me out a lot. But I'm telling you, he was, I didn't know Marc from Adam, but he was like, you're not like, you ain't on this level. You ain't on this level. And I, I think when you get stuff like that, it, it, it helps you because he kept it 100 with me and he still does to this day.

Zuri Berry: Keith, it, it sounds to me that you had a real humbling experience there, but beyond that, You also buckled down and worked on your craft, and I wanted to hear what your thoughts are on what that took and what that process was like. Just thinking about your craft down to everything from how you write your game stories and how you write your commentaries and sentence structure, all of that.

I mean, it seems that we don't get into those weeds enough for some of these young people, and that's something that it sounds like you took time on.

Keith Pompey: Oh yeah, it, so this is what I did this, and when we talk about it. It comes to a point where a lot of people don't, like you said, they don't do that enough, and it is easier nowadays because of social media, not so well because of the internet. But what I had to do is there were certain people who, and, and they were black.

There were black authors, right? One guy was Nathan McCall, right? Remember the guy, a brother who wrote makes me want to holler and stuff like that. So what I did was I read his books. That was. But then also what I would do is I would try to get as many newspapers as I could, and I would just read 'em.

And then after I would read 'em, I would store 'em away. Like, seriously, I had a cabinet and I still do. Heck, I still do to this day. I have a cabinet of old newspapers, and what I'll do is what I would do. I would go back to them and I'll read old articles that I had, and it wasn't per se, it was always of, okay, breaking news.

A player is, uh, caught up in something like a homicide or something like that. So I would read that to see how this person, you, you don't, you don't plagiarize it, you read it and you'll see how they get into the story or. Um, another thing, contract negotiations, you know, all this stuff. So I would just read as much as I could to see how people go about it.

I also would study how, when I, one place I would study how the beat writers and all these other people conducted themselves, how they asked questions like, you know, who was, had stuff in the notebook.

You know what I mean? Things like that. And I always asked a hundred questions. It was one of those things where I just wanted to learn as much as I could.

Donnell Suggs: I'm saying though, Keith, you studied the craft though. It wasn't like you were just, just cuz you got a job in it and you've accomplished that. You didn't stop learning just like you were learning in school.

We're still learning right now.

Yeah.

Because every year you cover the team, but the team changes sometimes. Yeah. Eventually they go, it is gonna change again. The key players will move on or whatever, and then you'll have to do that again. There's more studying. I think it's important that we tell our brothers and sisters, you gotta keep studying though. It's not over, just because you're getting a check.

Keith Pompey: Bingo. You're right.

Zuri Berry: Let me ask you this to sort of transition a little bit. When did you get your start at the Philly Inquirer and when did you transition to the NBA beat? And to, to really ask you about that beat. I, I want to get into like, when did you actually catch a rhythm on the beat, because I know that's a big part of moving to the pro sports level.

Keith Pompey: Yeah. You know, so I got hired at the Inquirer in 2004. And to be honest with you, it was, you know, like I said, I got my foot in the door and again, we gotta talk about patience because I covered high schools for a while, I mean a while. And when I got there, I wasn't even covering football like I was, I was like, the soccer writer, the field hockey writer, all this in South Jersey.

And it was like, uh, you know, it could be a little frustrating because you are saying to yourself like, yo, why can't I cover football? You know? Well, what happened is one day I, I had, I had lunch with an editor and we were talking basketball. And he was like, man, you seem to know a little bit about basketball here.

And I was like, yeah. And he was like, well, you wanna be the high school basketball writer? And I was like, sure. And he was like, so that's how that happened, right? So then all of a sudden, um, I became a small college football writer, right? Covering like Westchester, uh, Villanova, like the small college teams. Yes.

And then one day, um, Mike Days, who used to be the editor of the Philadelphia Daily News, who came to the Inquirer for a little bit and was the managing editor for the Inquirer. One day we had lunch and he said to me, um, he said, what do you want to do? I said, man, I'm a Philly kid. I want to cover Temple basketball.

I want to cover temple basketball. And he says, all right, let's see. And next thing you know, I became the Temple basketball beat writer. Well, with that, I became the Temple football beat writer too, a year later, right? So that's when I start, that's when people really, I think the people above really start noticing things, right.

Now, again, I got passed over. There was a, I got passed over twice for the Sixers beat. There was, um, a young, uh, a young lady by the name of Kate Fagan who went on to, uh, work for espn. Um, they gave her the beat and, you know, we both were at that point I'm like, man, like I'm trying to get my, my break. They gave her the beat.

And then there was a guy by the name of John Mitchell, who was still a good friend of mine who was covering. He came here to be a GA writer. He used to be an NBA writer, but he wanted to be a GA writer. Like he wanted to spend more time with his children and all this stuff. And they looked at it and when Kate left, they were like, well, Keith doesn't have any experience.

So I got passed over again. And you know, I was a little bit heartbroken, but that's my guy, right? And, so it was weird because what he did, he always let me know what was going on, like with how you cover a beat, this and that, the grind and kept saying, look man, if you're going to do this, you gotta be in it off, you know, on 100.

Once you get out of it, you can't do it. So then one day he calls me and he says, this was like, uh, towards the end of the season, and he says, no, and the season is over. He says, Hey, look man. I don't know what's going on, but they got me covering Temple football and basketball. And I'm like, what? He said, they got me covering Temple football and basketball.

And I said, well, what about me? But they're gonna have me covered? Like how, how they just give you my beat? And next thing he said, I don't know man. I don't know what to tell you. And then next thing you know that as I'm talking to him, the sports editor's on the other line, and he's like, hey, uh, you covering Temple, I mean you covering the Sixers. And John is my guy.

Now I'm gonna tell y'all this. This was always my dream, but I didn't want to take his job because that was my guy. And you feel like the other thing might be viewed as a demotion. And I said, John, I can't take it right now. And he was like, I said, John, I can't take it. This was like, um, this was what, 2013 like right before they, uh, got Sam Hinkie in the process. And I said, I can't take it.

And he said, dude, you mean to tell me you waited all these years to get this beat and you ain't going to take it? He said, I'm telling you, if you don't take it now, you may never get it. And I was like, but John, they did. How are they going to do you like this? And he was like, Keith, I'll give you my blessings. You're going to do well.

So that's how I got to beat. Um, sorry, like if I'm getting a little, because you know, it was like my dream. But if it wasn't for another brother. First of all, he didn't want the job. Let's just say that initially. But he didn't want to lose the job either. You understand what I'm saying? But he was the one that pushed me to take it.

And, um, it was hard because I didn't have any sources. It was a new guy coming in, Sam Hinkie you had, at that time, it wasn't all these bloggers, it was like reporters, like dudes with sources, this and that. And I was petrified. I wanted a job, but I was scared that I was going to get scooped all the time.

So it was hard initially, but you gotta pick your feet to the ground and you just gotta. If you are a shy person, it ain't the time to be shy. You know what I mean? You had to do whatever. So I wanna say a year in there is when I felt like I was getting there. You know what I mean? I felt like it. But that first season was tough because you don't even know where the media entrance is.

You know what I mean? They tell you that. You gotta have your first story filed at the buzzer, then you gotta come back an hour later, you know, stuff like that. So it was crazy. It was a lot of work. And then I knew what Paul Mitchell was saying, like, you ain't ready to do what Marc Spears is doing.

Donnell Suggs: Keith, you didn't have any idea what you wished for, huh?

Keith Pompey: I didn't, yo, I mean, I'm glad I, I mean, you know, it's a lot of work and, and John was telling me that it's a lot of work. You know, it's a lot of work. And especially now with social media, you don't, you don't, you don't have any time, um, to do, to do anything. A lot of people think you just go to the games.

You are in the locker room talking to the players. They think all that stuff. But it's a tough job, man, especially if you do it the right way. Because people, if you, if you write the truth, people respect you, but they don't always like you. You know what I mean? And, and that, and that's the thing that a lot of, I think the young kids need to know, like you want to be respected.

Um, because that carries with it, but at the same time, being respected and being a journalist, there's gonna be some times where people are gonna be upset at what you write and the way you write it. And also, people need to know that, you know, this isn't an eight hour job. If you think it's an eight hour job where you just show up and like you punching the clock, it ain't for you. Because you gotta get up early.

You and you, you, you are supposed to read what your competitors have because you may get scooped and then at the same time, like there's gonna be times at night where you're getting calls from people and there's going to be some breaking news or you gotta do it. I mean, you don't have any time. Like the biggest story I broke, what happened when I was on vacation?

I was literally on vacation and got a scoop. So I'm just saying like it's a job that's 24 hours basically. Or at least 18 hours a day that you, you're on call and you're doing.

Donnell Suggs: Keith, talk about how CO high schools actually helped you in that, because I know people don't. Covering high schools. That ain't like covering the Sixers, but you have to make those relationships when you cover high schools and they're a lot more intimate. You know what I mean? You talk to the coaches, you don't talk to the players.

They see you around town sometimes, depending how small the paper is. I bet that helped a whole lot with ultimately covering the biggest, one of the biggest clubs in the city and one of the biggest sports towns in America.

Keith Pompey: It helped a lot, but it also in, in, in addition to. Making relationships and building stuff. It, it, it also makes you a better reporter. Like, I mean, you know, you think about it like when you go to high schools, you know, you like the high school writers, they gotta do everything old school, like high school writers, you got your notepad, the game is going on.

You like you going through it. Right. You know what I mean? You look up, you're doing, going through it. You know, you go back when you cover a pro beat or a college. You know, you got dudes up there just sitting there like tweeting, talking, doing this and that. I mean, half the time they don't know what's going on.

Some people it is just them, they're just there. But when you go to high schools, you don't have that luxury of somebody taking stats for you. You know, you have to go out there and do it yourself. So I think that makes you a reporter. It also forces you to have relationships and build stuff with people.

You know what I mean? Get a rapport with people. But I, I, you know, without high school, I wouldn't be the person that I am today. I just wouldn't, you know, because that's how today, like there are certain times on the pro beat you, don't you, you don't like to take as many stats as you used to, but when in high school, you gotta do everything.

And there's also some character.

How many times you were in high school and you liked, after the game, at least back in the day, man, y'all got a phone line. Y'all got somewhere I can go and I can file a story, you know, or, or one of those where, oh man, my deadline's in the hour, but I got a 30 minute drive to get to the office or somewhere.

You know? You

like boo boo.

Donnell Suggs: A lot somewhere.

Zuri Berry: McDonald's Kinkos,

Keith Pompey: You know,

Zuri Berry: Kinkos don't exist any more.

Keith Pompey: I, I

think.

Yeah. Yeah. They don't miss anymore. But those are those that build character. That builds character.

Zuri Berry: Yeah, that you, you just said a bunch of things that just, you know, had me reflecting on my own sports journey, being a high school sports writer and, and, and you know, sort of waiting in the wings for opportunities to cover pro sports. There's so much about that and there's so many. Um, young people that have been able to skip a few steps in that respect.

Right. You know, I think that for our generation, and I, and I would put us in a, an older generation, um, you know, feel as if, you know, there is a progression sometimes to these career arcs, meaning high schools, colleges, then pros and some folks have been sort of skipping that, if you will. Although you could say today that it's very different and I just wanna get a sense or take on that in terms of how people are finding themselves in the business now and whether or not they have or are prepared for all of the things that go along with that.

Keith Pompey: Yeah, it is. It is, it is. That's a great question. And it's a tough subject, right? Because, you know, you look at it now, there's more, there's more opportunities. You know, like, you know, you think of the markets that you worked in. Donnell you look at, you know, where are you at right now? You know, let's just think before there was the AJC.

There were a couple smaller newspapers in the area, and you had people who were there for years. Now they have these startup websites and stuff like that, so it's easier for people to get a job and do things right.

But I also think that sometimes with that comes, you have some people who are more fans than reporters. And they don't know

Donnell Suggs: say, it.

Keith Pompey: the difference.

Donnell Suggs: It,

Keith Pompey: You know, they, they don't know the difference. I, I don't know. I, I, I'm, I'm happy for some people that they're able to get these opportunities, but at the same time, sometimes I feel like they need to pay their dues because there was a point in time you had to work at a smaller paper for at least five years before a bigger paper to look at you, you know?

I, I just look at it now that I feel like sometimes some of these younger reporters, again, they don't know, but I feel like sometimes the teams that they cover look at them to be the spokesman for, as opposed to being on OB object objective reporting,

and

Zuri Berry: Let me just say this real quick because I think it is interesting that you say that. My, one of my good friends, Gary Washburn, who's, you know, at the Boston Globe now, he, he and I go, go way back, um, from my time there. And one of the things that he remarked upon was all of these different bloggers, digital startup folks, whoever, you know, all these new people, new media folks that are in the locker rooms now and a ton of them are just standing around in the locker room, just taking up space, just taking up space.

Cuz they don't understand how to, you know, work in a locker room. They don't, they don't know how. They haven't done it. It's, it's not something that's in what they know is, you know, oh, this person is, you know, available to speak. So I'm gonna put a microphone in their face and, you know, opine on what they are.

And maybe throw in a good question or two, but they don't know, for instance, like you or maybe Marc Spears, Marc Spears is wonderful at this, of how to work a locker room and really, you know, get some new nuggets and information out of people in a way that, you know, people who haven't understood how to finesse these situations, they, they, they just don't know, cause they didn't have the experience in high school. They didn't have any experience with college. They didn't, they didn't do that. They've been a fan their whole life and they've gotten this opportunity to write for a website. So I just, I'm, I'm trying to get a sense of like, you know, this, this, this problem that we have with, you know, there's more opportunities, but also are, are they getting the experience and how can they get up to that speed, to that level?

Are they not learning from others like yourself within the locker room or maybe how to carry themselves?

Keith Pompey: You know, they, they, they're not, I mean, it's tough. Like you, you would hope that they would, but you, he's right. And as a matter of fact, I saw Gary last night at the game, but you know, it's like to a point where he's literally, there are people staring there, staring at, in the locker room, staring at the athlete.

They don't walk up. Now they'll, they'll walk up to the superstar athlete. But the other people, they just look at 'em. It's like they don't try to make relationships with a lot of 'em, I mean, it is kind of like they don't go in there pregame. It's more or less it's, sometimes it is better to get a social media video of a guy working out than being in the locker room, building relationships with other people.

You know, it's tough, man. And, and I don't know how, I don't know how they correct that. I mean, I know how to do it, but I don't know how they will, because I don't think some of 'em want to. You know, see the problem nowadays with the media, and I get it with the aggregation and everything, but I feel like certain people who do a lot of the aggregate and feel like they don't have to build a relationship. Like they'll wait until somebody tweets it out. And if that person who tweets it out is a reputable reporter, then I'll go with it. You know, I'll just say, according to ESPN, I'll, according to the Boston Globe, whatever publication, and I'm gonna get hits off of that article.

I'm not doing the legwork to build the relationship so I can make sure that I can get it confirmed or I can break it. It's like they don't care anymore. And, and to me, that's one of the biggest downfalls with this industry now, you know, it's like how many times where you see, and they all, everybody does it.

We all do it. I mean, every publication. Whereas if ESPN has something or someone else has something, as Gary Washburn has something, the next thing you know, it's in the Philadelphia Inquirer or somewhere else saying, ge, according to Gary Washburn, this happened. You know? And it's, it's, um, I don't know. It, it, it is a little, it's a little disheartening because I remember before where it was really competitive in that everybody wanted to do their own work.

Now you just want to get videos which tweet out and basically rewrite what somebody else said.

Donnell Suggs: Keith, I can't tell you how many times up until actually last Saturday night, where I'm in a scrum, and there's 30 people in the scrum, but only three of us actually asked the question. But later on that night, my quote, someone else's quote, someone else's quote is included in someone else's story. And you know for a fact that person didn't, not only not ask a question, didn't even contribute to that whole situation really.

And yet, you know that blog or that website has a game story or has a post game story, and you're like, I know that guy or that girl, and you didn't even do anything. You just chilled out and waited for us to kind of get the thing going. And I and, and it's legal. It's legal. We're talking out loud. I'm just saying that's why sometimes I'll go left.

I'll go right from the scrum and go talk to this person, to that person just to shake it up a little bit. And I want young journalists to know you can shake it up. It's not always about Embiid; you can go talk to somebody else. There's more when one player plays that game. And I think conversations like this are important to show, to let 'em know.

You can, you can go the other route too and get a good story out of it.

Keith Pompey: Yeah. And also what they need to do is, that's why it's important to build these relationships because you know, it got to a point where Embiid now, if I really need something after the scrum, when everybody, when he says, they say, all right, last question, he's done, I go up to him and say, yo, Joe, I need you. I have two questions. And I'm like off in the corner whispering and like, hey, I need this. He gives it to me .

Tobias Harris, you know, when he does his walk offs at, can I get something, you know, a couple other people. But see, you only get that when you build that relationship. Like if you, that dude that's in the locker room just staring at 'em, and you're not saying anything to 'em, nah, you're not going to get it.

So that's why it's important to, to, to do that. And also, people need to realize, and, and I, I found this out from like Ramona Shelburne and, and other people, um, you know, uh, uh, uh, people that y'all, we all know, right? One time, one dude said to me, Pompei, like no offense. Why are you always asking all the B, all your important stuff in the scrum?

And I like, oh, you know, you supposedly like, nah, nah, that ain't how it always works, man. Like, sometimes what you need to do is you need to get that for the one-on-one because all you're doing is, like you said, it's legal, you're filling up everybody else's notebook. And nowadays, unfortunately, like, you know, let's face it, um, You know, we work at publications to where it's one of those points where that stuff might run tomorrow, the next day, but it's already all over, uh, Twitter because somebody else had it.

Nowadays, people might even sit at home, not even in that place and tweet this stuff. So, you know, young reporters need to know it is important to build relationships, and it's important to always get one-on-one with these players.

Zuri Berry: I think something you just mentioned there just speaks to the competitive nature of these beats, right? We're still in competition with rival newspapers, TV outlets, radio, et cetera. We're all in competition in these, uh, arenas, particularly when it comes to sports. And I I think that sometimes it is underplayed. It's like we're all just doing this. No, no, no. Some of us wanna be better than others. And you, you mentioned something about being a primary source versus the secondary source. Let me tell you something. All the love goes to the primary source. Whether or not people wanna, uh, believe it, whether or not they think it's easier to just be that secondary source.

All the love still goes to the primary source. And so if you are doing that work, everything is gonna start flowing toward you, and I think that's represented in your work in particular Keith.

And I just wanna ask you, now that we're on this subject and, and I know we're getting close to running out of time here, what, what does it mean then to thrive in this job at this point in time, given all of these competitive factors, given the digital landscape, I mean, you got startups like The Athletic out there. You got all these different things that are out there. What does it mean to thrive right now as a sports journalist?

Keith Pompey: You know, it means a lot because, because it is all about hard work, you know? It, it, it is one of those things.

You know, in this market, I'm looked upon as the go-to. You know, I mean, that's what Dave, cause I remember I was trying to, I was thinking about moving to another market and you know, we all looked to our mentors.

Like I went to David Aldridge and I was like, DA, so I'm thinking about growing. He's like, man, it gotta be a way better job for you to go. He says, because right now, when I'm, when, when we think of people in that market, it is you, you are the guy. So you gotta make sure if you leave, it has to be something better.

Um, you know, it is, it is it, but it makes you feel good because when you look at it, people don't understand this, and this isn't a knock, this isn't a knock. There are certain reporters who you have to work hard to get the news. I'm one of those reporters. There are other reporters because of their profile.

And again, this isn't a. But because of their profile, they're given the news. You, you know what I mean? Like you gotta go out and get the news where they're handed the news. So you're not going to always scoop them. They're going to get the majority of the other stuff. But the fact that I'm able to get some things from time to time, it makes you feel good. You understand what I'm saying? Because, you know, it's not a level playing field anymore. It's not, you know, people tend to go to guys who have way more Twitter, Twitter followers, guys who have a higher profile nationally, because it's easier for them to get that information out.

But the fact that I can grind hard and get some things, it is a sense of pride that I'm able to do that.

You know?

Donnell Suggs: Looking back on it, you made the right decision even though dad was like, you losing your mind, looking back on, you feel like you made the right decision.

Keith Pompey: Yeah. It is funny cuz now my pop acts are like, oh, I knew I wasn't like that. Yes you were. Yes you were. Yes you were.

Zuri Berry: Oh.

Keith Pompey: Yeah. It was crazy. I mean, but you know what, it's one of those things where they say you can't give up your dream. You just can't. I mean you, like, I didn't want to be. Honestly, I didn't want to be that guy and it's nothing against it, but I didn't want to be that guy who had a job doing something that I hated, a blue collar job that I hated, and, and in all my life wondering what if I would've, if I, if I would've stayed in Martinsville, Virginia instead of coming home with my mom.

You, you know what I mean? I just didn't want to be that person. I didn't want to do it

Zuri Berry: So, what do you tell young sports journalists at this point in time who come to you for advice? And I'm sure you get them quite often. What do you tell them? I mean, cuz they may not take the same path that you took, they may find themselves skipping a few steps like we talked about. How, what, what advice do you give them to be able to, uh, position themselves for success in this business?

Keith Pompey: Well, first of all, I always tell them, the first advice I give them is, don't let anybody tell you you're not good. I mean, and I always tell them, if I'm doing it, you are way ahead of me. So you are definitely going to do it. But especially a person of color, a young black journalist or anyone of color, people tend to bring up the things we can't do instead of talking about the things we can do.

Right. And you know, you, you hear that. And I don't want them to be, um, to feel like I can't do it. I mean, you hear it all the time. So, and especially when you skip steps, because when you sit, skip steps, they don't understand it. Sometimes you put yourself in a position to fail because, and it is nothing against you, but you don't have that base that we talked about in regards to high schools in regards to getting your own stats.

It's like you just have to rely on others, right? So with that being said, that's my advice. Keep grinding, continue to grind, but don't allow anyone to tell you you can't do something.

Donnell Suggs: That's perfect. That's what it is. That's what it's about. Keep Compe, keep Compe giving it to us. I appreciate it. Thank you for your time, brother.

Zuri Berry: Yeah. Yeah. Let me, let me, let me throw one last lob at you. Okay. Who do the Sixers have to beat? Well, I'm asking this on April 5th. Who do the Sixers have to beat? So you feel comfortable saying they're going to the NBA finals, so they're gonna win the NBA finals? Excuse me.

Keith Pompey: The, the, the one team that they defeated on Tuesday night is the team that they have to beat for me to feel confident that they're going

Zuri Berry: And that's the

Boston Celtics.

Keith Pompey: Boston Celtics, like, you know, it was a great game for Joel Embiid,

but, Boston was out. Two of their players. It looked like the Celtics. If we're going to be real, the Celtics didn't really start playing until the fourth quarter.

And I feel like the 76ers just need to be able to beat Boston in the series. Now, here's the thing. People gotta realize this about the Celtics. The Celtics have owned the Sixers since I've been on the beat, right? The one year, Sixers. Yeah, before that. But it is, it is, and and you gotta understand this, they both were tanking at the same time.

I think they played 33 times. Boston won 23 of those games. Now, there were times when the Sixers were beating them because they both were horrible. The one year that the Sixers had a three one advantage, and this is when they both were good. Boston swept 'em in the playoffs.

So you understand it is like what we saw last night was great.

I believe that they gotta beat the Boston Celtics at full staff and somebody other than Joel Embiid has to step up for me to say, this team has a chance.

Zuri Berry: Keith, it's been a real pleasure chatting with you and even talking to little sports, too.

Donnell Suggs: Keith, we appreciate you, brother.

Keith Pompey: I appreciate y'all for having me on.